香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

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香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章Ray Leung » 26日 5月 2011年, 18:12

以下係佢地近排發佈嘅一封公開信:

An Open Letter to VFX Artists and the Entertainment Industry at Large Visual Effects Society: 2.0

As an Honorary Society, VES has led the way in promoting the incredible work of VFX artists but so far no one has stood up to lead the way on the business side of our business. No one has been able to speak out for unrepresented artists and facilities – or the craft as a whole – in any meaningful way.
It should not come as a surprise to anyone that the state of the visual effects industry is unsettled. Artists and visual effects companies are working longer hours for less income, delivering more amazing VFX under ever diminishing schedules, carrying larger financial burdens while others are profiting greatly from our work. As a result, there has been a lot of discussion recently about visual effects and its role in the entertainment industry. Many feel VFX artists are being taken advantage of and many others feel that VFX facilities are operating under unsustainable competitive restraints and profit margins. There have been calls for the creation of a VFX union to represent artists’ interests while others have pushed to create a trade organization for VFX facilities to better navigate today’s economic complexities.
As globalization intensifies, the process of creating visual effects is becoming more and more commoditized. Many wonder if the current business model for our industry is sustainable over the long term. Indeed, multiplying blogs are questioning why artists are forced to work crazy overtime hours for weeks or months on end without health benefits and VFX facilities are forced to take on shows at a loss just to keep their pipelines going and their doors open (they hope).
As good as we are at creating and manipulating amazing and ground breaking images, VFX professionals have done a terrible job of marketing ourselves to the business side of the industry. In short, no one has been able to harness the collective power of our efforts, talents, and passions into a strong, unified voice representing the industry as a whole.
VES may not have the power of collective bargaining, but we do have the power of a voice that’s 2,400 artists strong in 23 countries -- and the VES Board of Directors has decided that now is the time to use it. We are the only viable organization that can speak to the needs and concerns of everyone involved in VFX to meet the challenges of a changing global industry and our place within it.
The work we do helps a lot of people make a lot of money, but it’s not being shared on an equal basis, nor is the respect that’s due us, especially considering that 44 of the top 50 films of all time are visual effects driven (http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross).
For VFX ARTISTS (NOT computer geeks, NOT nerds), we do not receive the kind of respect that measures up to the role visual effects plays in the bottom line. And that’s expressed in a number of very obvious ways:
 

Credits – we are frequently listed incompletely and below where we should be in the crawl.
Benefits – in the US, you likely do not have ready access to health care. Or a vision plan. Or a pension plan. Outside the US, unless you’re a citizen of a country with national health care, you likely do not have health care coverage either. Or have the ability to build hours for your pension. Or are eligible to receive residuals. On a UNION show we are the ONLY department that is not union and therefore not receiving the same benefits as everyone else on the set.
Working conditions – if you are a freelancer (it’s generally agreed that almost half of all visual effects workers are freelancers), because you are not covered by collective bargaining, you may be forced to work 70 – 100 hour weeks or months on end in order to meet a delivery date. And for that privilege (in the U.S.) you will also likely be considered an Independent Contractor and have to file a 1099 – and then pay the employer’s share of the tax contribution.
Many small to medium-sized VFX companies around the world are struggling to survive (or have gone out of business – (RIP Café FX, Asylum, Illusion Arts and many others). By now almost everyone in the industry is familiar with the quote from a few years ago by an unidentified studio executive that if he ‘didn’t put at least one VFX company out of business on a show, he wasn’t doing his job.’
The concern exists at every level of the VFX chain -- artist, facility and studio – how the impact of a “Fix” would affect the industry. Would it drive work elsewhere? Would it cut into the dwindling profit margins of VFX companies and put them out of business? Would it make VFX artists unhireable?
No matter one’s perspective, the interests of VFX artists can no longer be ignored.
In the coming weeks and months, VES will shine a spotlight on the issues facing the artists, facilities and studios by way of editorial pieces in the trades and VFX blogs, virtual Town Hall meetings, a VFX Artists’ Bill of Rights and a VFX CEO’s Forum (for the companies that actually provide the jobs that everyone is working so hard to safeguard).
There are solutions and we will find them.
We want the studios to make a respectable profit. We want facilities to survive and thrive in this ever changing fiscal environment. And we want artists to have high quality jobs with the commensurate amount of respect for the work they do on a daily basis. Therefore, VES will take the lead by organizing meetings with all participants in our industry in which we will make sure that all the issues discussed above are put on the table.
We are the VES and the time to step up has arrived. VES 2.0 is here and ready to lead. If you’d like to share a comment with us you can contact us at either leadership@visualeffectssociety.com or through the
leadership forum on the VES website at: http://www.visualeffectssociety.com/for ... ship-forum. Stay tuned!
Eric Roth VES Executive Director

香港究竟需唔需要一個咁樣嘅機構黎維護digital artist嘅利益呢?
Ray Leung
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文章: 146
註冊時間: 12日 11月 2006年, 13:14
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章cktm20xx » 26日 5月 2011年, 19:23

Ray 我諗你睇完人地呢編文章之後 其實係好羨慕人地有個公會同會有人會企出來幫佢地d artist 爭取佢地o既權益呢.我想如果真的有公會而且真的可以幫到我地d artist 爭取到權益的話, 要入會俾錢少少我都會入 :-)
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章hibiki » 26日 5月 2011年, 19:43

cktm20xx 寫:如果真的有公會而且真的可以幫到我地d artist 爭取到權益的話, 要入會俾錢少少我都會入 :-)

你以為去超市買野嗎?俾錢就有貨。權益是要爭取,爭取就要結團。

現時市好,做電影的預算必定大過以前,但是人工無加,錢去左邊,大家心裡有數。
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章h2o » 26日 5月 2011年, 20:03

cktm20xx 寫:我想如果真的有公會而且真的可以幫到我地d artist 爭取到權益的話, 要入會俾錢少少我都會入 :-)

係"工會"呀 :mrgreen:


:!: 舊聞重溫

5份vfx苦工...
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章sobig » 27日 5月 2011年, 12:20

cg visual就係類似工會既物體
香港 3ds max 用戶組

cg is for fun, not for money.
otherwise, cg is not yours.
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章hibiki » 27日 5月 2011年, 16:10

sobig 寫:cg visual就係類似工會既物體

我看不見這種可能
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章Ray Leung » 28日 5月 2011年, 21:31

sobig 寫:cg visual就係類似工會既物體

認真問,cg visual有冇搞過D乜野function去維護咁多同行既利益?
做咗咁耐member都好似唔多覺,同埋呢個forum既流量都好似偏低... :(
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章ZU » 29日 5月 2011年, 22:29

明白到soBig 對CGV有所期望,而大家都知 soBIG 經常解答各人的max 問題,甚致在部份發問者連一句Thank you 都無回覆的情況下,他仍繼續幫忙,所以soBig 這樣說是可理解,大家請不要怪他這樣說 ~

老實說 , CGV 又有何德何能擔當起"工會"的責任呢 ? :oops:
我們一直都是網上資訊平台,再加個"討論區"而已,相對香港現下大大小小的"收費"協會及群組,要怪我們沒有攪過什麼確實有點..敲錯門口..

不過話說回來,我們又不是沒有幫過業界 ? 找工作、推廣公司,亦有人經CGV找到工作罷, 又或從CGV認識幾個多本地CG人、CG公司吧!!

但你要說我們要攪什麼Function 來去維護咁多同行既利益? 我都想知 ? 攪籌款 ? 攪搵工講座 ?
我們也有在最黑暗的時期 Line up 大部份的製作單位在HKPC攪個 招聘活動 , CGV一直都很想幫大的家...
但係CG界家下d人既心態係點,我真係攪唔明.....再加上個十分無能政府....

好似昨日....

康樂及文化事務署攪了一個以 PIXAR為主 , 談及歐、日、中的動畫講座 , PIXAR 的 Alex Woo 同 Gini Santos 的 Present真係好好好好 ,由其 ALEX Woo 佢講 Story is KING , 連個Keynote都好有故事性..Gini Santos 的 Present 也是, 對動畫師來說是非常有用的.....在家下連DVD都無乜 Making of 既時候 , 呢d機會真係唔可以放過.....

誰不知到場的人真係唔算多,仍有不少空位,到最後Q & A 部份,幾十人都唔到...

係香港動畫人覺得呢d交流會無用 ? 覺得既然不是John Lasseter 來,不聽也罷 ?

我見大部份都是老師帶學生來看,老實我認為"業界人仕"來看更適合,不要以為出來做事就和學生有很大分別啊!!!!

當然 , 我相信康民處宣傳是不足的,小弟去到又唔比拍攝(我已說明來意.當然佢地唔知我係乜水,最後硬來去拍一兩張),幸得Eddie兄幫忙介紹才直接識認到有關嘉賓,最後還要自己霸王硬上躬去訪問.....

.. 如此"封閉式"去攪活動,真係想多人來都難....

對不起,我不是要怪責每一個不去看的動畫人,明白大家要工作,只是希望大家主動去參與這些活動~~~

對不起,我像是在發了個牢騷....但我有時覺得究竟幹這行業的人是否已經無了以前那團火呢 ?
CGVisual.com - play cg | enjoy cg !!
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章Ray Leung » 30日 5月 2011年, 17:43

我諗你誤解左我既意思,我其實真係好奇想知CG Visual有冇搞過想關既function...

一直以黎我都覺得呢個forum有某D user係好熱心咁去幫D新入行或者需要幫忙既會員...

我好記得之前有好多前輩o係度俾過意見我,我都好多謝咁多位當時咁熱心咁幫忙 :)


我好明白o係香港要搞好CG呢行唔易....

一來政府對我地不聞不問...

二來大部份本地CG artist好似唔多重視自身應有既權益...

呢行行頭好窄,但係香港點計都應該有過千位CG artist...

CG Visual應該算得上係香港最主要既CG forum,但係真正active既user好可能得幾十人...

即使大家有心,恐怕都未必成到事 :(

我想講既係如果大家再係咁漠不關心,即使有人樂意去搞一個好似VES咁既協會,有冇人會出席function都成問題...!
Ray Leung
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註冊時間: 12日 11月 2006年, 13:14
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章h2o » 2日 6月 2011年, 16:33

想攪.... 但可惜肯企出黎既.... 連幾十人都冇

有D 人轉左行; 有D 有安穩既生活/ 公司壓力唔方便企出黎

不過我聽到有人問加入"工會", 講明唔想比會費, 又問多唔多 discount.... 例如 Wacom, computers 等等 :roll:
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章A00017940 » 2日 6月 2011年, 17:20

just some side notes,
Gini Santos is a very talented character animator at pixar by the way. Attended a lecture from her once and she can just explain something very complicated in a simple and clear way.
I wish I am wrong but from what I know of and what I experienced recently, good animating skills are being overlooked in HK.
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章Ray Leung » 3日 6月 2011年, 00:03

A00017940 寫:just some side notes,
Gini Santos is a very talented character animator at pixar by the way. Attended a lecture from her once and she can just explain something very complicated in a simple and clear way.
I wish I am wrong but from what I know of and what I experienced recently, good animating skills are being overlooked in HK.

Animating skills being overlooked? yah I have no doubt about it. As a matter of fact, Hong Kong should be proud of the animators. They have the same quality as any of the animators working for the big production houses around the world. And why are they being overlooked? Limitation to production budget, driven by efficiency over quality. They have the skills but they need the chance.
Ray Leung
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註冊時間: 12日 11月 2006年, 13:14
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章kinnng » 3日 6月 2011年, 09:31

To Ray: Animating in HK is just like HK comic industry, the boss just want to get thing done within short time, they will not expect animators to do very well for the job ( since there is no time to refine). Also they think rendering time is no afford to do, would not concern to reserve some time for rendering. Then animators have to OT for rendering to check and comp
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章A00017940 » 3日 6月 2011年, 13:08

maybe I didn't express myself well from the last thread. No doubt that Hk got some very great lighting/texture artist that could compare with blue-chipped studio in the world. i am a big fan of those local artist myself too. what i mean by animating skills is animating motion of characters or creatures or even objects. I know a few animators never heard of the 12 principles of animation. I understand that most of the clients in Hk would focus only on how surreal the images are in the final render, and I admit that it is very important for them. But every process of animation is equally important to produce fine visual.
maybe i talk too much about animating skills, but Clients/Bosses, please appreciate animations.
just my 2 cents
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Re: 香港需唔需要一個好似VES咁樣嘅機構?

文章sobig » 3日 6月 2011年, 14:50

h2o 寫:想攪.... 但可惜肯企出黎既.... 連幾十人都冇

有D 人轉左行; 有D 有安穩既生活/ 公司壓力唔方便企出黎

不過我聽到有人問加入"工會", 講明唔想比會費, 又問多唔多 discount.... 例如 Wacom, computers 等等 :roll:


完全講哂香港cg人既心聲
香港 3ds max 用戶組

cg is for fun, not for money.
otherwise, cg is not yours.
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